THE INTEGRAL POLITICS WEBSITE
(integration of contributions on the PostConventional Politics eList)
Blue texts are recent additions (up to 7 days)
Organizing this Site
How to start, Phases, Future steps
We surely need to make a some first step, an interim project, however limited? (I'm not denying all the fantastic projects that individuals on this list are personally involved with already).
I bet Frank/ Tony would be much more willing to give space to a few pages that have already been created and revised instead of to an idea that is struggling to make it out of committee : )
There seems to be enough integral politics bits and bobs floating around that it wouldn't be too hard to get content; so it's just a matter of throwing together a first draft, let us know, and then be prepared for comments....
I don't even (greatly) mind trying to put together such a page myself, with help from Alex and whoever else, and feedback from the group if I do it wrong, so I can improve it.
One way to get a website from thought to reality is to draw up some sort of flowchart-type visualization of it: what is the navigation structure, what will be on each page, how many pages are there, how will the content be organized, etc. You don't need ANYBODY to let you do this, Frank or Tony or anybody
My suggestion is to work up a prototype and then send that url around for feedback, instead of waiting for people to say "yes I will commit"
Is it useful to make such a site?
1. Integrative rather than just Posts Exchange
One of the things I miss in this List --and in many other lists as well-- is the integrative tendency. Most often we are just posting views, very interesting of course, sometimes contested, but nearly never integrated. And by integration I mean an intellectual procedure by which separate contributions, even conslicting ones, are reformulated and put together as a consensus. I think the Yahoo List system --like probably all eLists-- is too cumulative, too parcelling. The posted texts are just stacked, and only result into an archive, not into an integrative corpus of insights. This is, for my feeling, as frustrating as the fact the response percentage is always very low. Sometimes the only reward is the idea to have put something on a global forum and to have been present, during some seconds, in the awareness of a handful of people. But the idea itself probably is buried into the archives some moments later.
I'm still looking for an INTEGRATIVE forum, where no one idea is lost, where questions don't have to return from time to time as if previous posts didn't exist. Of course, I think that at this stage of technological evolution this kind of intellectual procedure is to be performed by humans, although I'm convinced that much more intellectual assistance by software could be available. Just have a look to Google's entirely algorithm generated new News site and you wil, perhaps, as I was, be very impressed.
Well, one of my intentions by offering free pages to Matthew was not just to create the zillionth internet forum, but to try to propose an integrative approach to Integral Politics. Of course, as long as we don't have some better HTML or SQL or PHP or whatever, this work has to be performed by hand. But one of my proposals should be that some of us take the responsibility to integrate (some) new posts that are presented on this eList, just to build up an integrative IP site.
You are right about the structure of the list being inhibitive, and such software advances as you suggest would be very helpful.
2. Who will read it?
Do you think the world actually needs some Integral Politics pages produced by us lot?
I agree with you that it would be *ideal* to be "getting our ducks in a row" right now so we have something ready. On the other hand, because they are designing several different subscription levels that make different features available, we might also need to wait and understand *what* and *how* we can do what seems best. It sounded to me as though we'll find it like a candy store and have some tasty choices. I would find it hard, right now, to know what precise questions we could pose to Tony, because the framework in which the site is designed sounds like a non-conventional approach.
My own response is YES I'm in favor of some sort of integral politics presence/project on the web. I also think it might be just the achievement of getting converted to IA's site with some of "our stuff".
Is it possible to make such a site?
- Probably yes
Given the profuse output on this list I would have thought that such a site would not be beyond us. We could even simplify it by only using pre-published stuff and not write anything much at all other than links and bibliography (I'll even do these myself if no-one's keen - perhaps Michel will help on bibliography).
- Probably No
And if we can't get our act together on this site what hope has another web effort got? Isn't another web effort going to face the very same problems this list has?
Hopefullly it could even be hosted by one of the other Integral sites - so all we'd have to do is provide content. But it needs to be a site where we can have a unique URL at the top that somehow includes the word "integralpolitics" (presumably after a /)
Should I go ahead and ask Tony Arcari or Frank Visser whether we might be able to have a few pages on one of their sites for an initial, basic 'Integral Politics' site? (This was my suggested idea)
Webspace is freely available from a number of companies
- Kris's option
I can offer you all the pages you want on my website noosphere.cc (at this moment ca. 200 visits a day...) -- That's a very kind offer (presuming you mean some free pages?) -- Of course these pages are for free. It's my ideal also!
Is there any way that "integralpolitics" could be included somewhere in the URL? (ie www.noosphere.cc/integralpolitics or suchlike?) -- Done.
- Integral Age's option
It seems there are things afoot with the Integral Age site which Sara has just contacted me about - and that might be another option. Tony Acari is moving in this direction as we speak.
Could I lovingly beseech you to rein in those horses of frustrated impatience just a little longer, until we actually have some clue what the IA animal looks like? All I have time to say right now is YES [for an Integral Politics Site], and that I think some or much of what you are pushing us on will become do-able, really for the first time, once IntegralAge (IA) site is launched. Tony had said they hoped that would happen this month.
The time/response problem
I just don't have time to pull together outlines of Integral Politics over and over again for people who are (or might be) interested (eg Anthony Giddens was suggested to me by one of his professor colleagues - possibly the most influential political theorist in the world right now). [MK]
I can understand your frustration, however, you are not the only one who posts stuff and does not get the reply they want. For instance, I asked a question about a policy on abortion - did you reply?
In the meantime, I sure would encourage list members to respond to your questions! And it seems to me that we are finding such point-blank brief questionnaires might be *just* the way to get e-group responses.
I am however a little surprised by your plea, especially given that there have been several posts of recent times that explain exactly why there is sometimes no reply. I also commented that people expect instant responses. Let me remind everyone that the problem is TIME. Time to read all the posts, time to digest them and time to respond. [RH]
There are, of course, strong material restrictions, as you enumerate. But I think this doesn't explain everything, there are also the questions of maximal responsibility and synergy, as I argued in an earlier text before I was in this list. [Kris Roose, 27.09.02]
But how we handle what we are given is up to us - we just face the simple problem of time and commitment. I would suggest a guideline: if you wish to use this forum for feedback then please be generous and consistently and conscientiously give your feedback to others. [Ray Harris, 27.09.02]
Ray's suggestions for easy posting
FYI (for your information)
PD (policy discussion)
FB (want feedback)
This Webpage on Site Organization created 29 Sep 2002
.cc refers to the Cocos or Keeling Islands, somewhere between Indonesia and Australia, with a kind of autonomy from Australia. As .com ran exhausted in name possibilities, they sold .cc, all inhabitants (some hundreds...) having already a .cc email address... It was commercialized by Enic/VeriSign, but becomes exhausted now as well.